Porsche is realigning itself: "Leaner, faster and even more desirable"

chassis wrote

Sitting in the Porsche dealer now, they are looking at my Cayenne for a CEL.

2022 GT3 with 500 miles and CPO warranty…$300k

A 4 year old car with no original warranty for $300k. Goofy.

Stupid. I'm certain a 2022 GT3 doesn't deliver 10X the fun that my ~$30K 2011 Cayman Base 6MT does. Not ever 3X the fun.

$300K, much less $150K for a sports car is just dumb. Unless of course you have a ton of money burning a hole in your pocket, you're more about status and "numbers", and don't care much about driving a car as the impact on resale value of a GT3 with mileage is detrimental.

2022 with 500 miles. How sad.

If all someone wants to do is look at it a poster is a whole lot cheaper.

Edit: and yeah, if you're only putting 500 miles on the car in four-ish years, it's all about status.

Phillies8008 wrote

2022 with 500 miles. How sad.

If all someone wants to do is look at it a poster is a whole lot cheaper.

Edit: and yeah, if you're only putting 500 miles on the car in four-ish years, it's all about status.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is the result of the new-money fuckboy market that just adores these GT/RS cars. Drive them? Nah, you can't signal you have money and are cool if you accidently drive into a tree/wall/curb.

Nothing better than going to a car show where the p-car losers line up with their RS's without a spot of wear on their 100 treadwear tires. Love me some faux race car drivers.

XutvJet wrote

I'm certain a 2022 GT3 doesn't deliver 10X the fun that my ~$30K 2011 Cayman Base 6MT does. Not ever 3X the fun.

It depends on the sort of the fun. Driving/handling wise mid-engine is superior to rear. But girls would favour the 911. I recall Clarkson said the only Cayman gripe would be you failed to afford a 911.

The new 992.2 turbo engine is amazing. The electric turbos are getting in the game

karboog wrote

The new 992.2 turbo engine is amazing. The electric turbos are getting in the game

It's not what these cars are about. These cars are about connection, drama, etc. Not max power and all out performance numbers. They, like most every automaker, keep cramming more complication into the motors making them incredibly timing consuming and expensive to maintain and repair.

XutvJet wrote

It's not what these cars are about. These cars are about connection, drama, etc. Not max power and all out performance numbers. They, like most every automaker, keep cramming more complication into the motors making them incredibly timing consuming and expensive to maintain and repair.

The GT cars are becoming objets d’art. Not transportation devices but rather expensive tchotchke.

chassis wrote

The GT cars are becoming objets d’art. Not transportation devices but rather expensive tchotchke.

I think you are correct, but a large expensive tchotchke.

What all this sounds like is:

1. The root of the major problems manifesting today - inflation, replacement of God with money, [non-linear] collapse of quality, consumerism, genuinely ridiculous levels of inequality - even in menial examples like Porsche price & quality inverting, dictate the necessity for political revolution across a handful of countries. A deep ideological reversal of both the last 80 years and 400 years

2. It’s of no surprise that sought-after and relatively bespoke items like Porsches (referring largely to GT cars) are targets of the wealthy as investment “vehicles”

Ambrozie wrote

genuinely ridiculous levels of inequality

People who complain about monetary inequality in modern society are usually just inefficient complainers or wealthy hypocrites.

kudos wrote

People who complain about monetary inequality in modern society are usually just inefficient complainers or wealthy hypocrites.

Much easier just to say losers.

x622 wrote

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is the result of the new-money fuckboy market that just adores these GT/RS cars. Drive them? Nah, you can't signal you have money and are cool if you accidently drive into a tree/wall/curb.

Nothing better than going to a car show where the p-car losers line up with their RS's without a spot of wear on their 100 treadwear tires. Love me some faux race car drivers.

one of em decided to give the canyons a shot...hammering at...uhh 40 lol. Didn't work out so well. --->


https://www.instagram.com/p/DX4IJzhutMt/

I think Porsche's biggest problem is they want to be Ferrari and BMW at the same time. I don't make that statement to say one is better than the other just that they try so hard to be this investment/bespoke company like Ferrari while they mass push macans, cayennes and taycans.

I'm a Porsche fanboy and hoping to get a 992 GT3RS soon but regardless of how fast their cars are, they're not Ferrari and should probably relax on their used market manipulation. They got greedy during covid and won't let go.

There is nothing wrong with Porsche, other than the fact that they spent a ton of money on electrification, only to realize that, beyond the trendy early adopters, no one wanted their EVs, which caused the residual values to collapse, burning a lot of buyers in the process.

The entire VW AG got burned by EVs and their stupid Cariad SW fiasco.

Mercedes is right there with them.

BMW did much better because they resisted/avoided the massive investment in EV only platforms with weird looks, except for a few test products (original i3, iX). They learned a lot, and chose the right path with the Neue Klasse - make EVs look just like the ICE vehicles (i.e. not weird) and only do massive investments when all the elements are in (800V architecture, dense cylindrical cells, 3rd gen motors, "superbrain" HW/SW zonal architecture).

BMW is *THE* winner among German brands in the EV transition.

baron95 wrote

make EVs look just like the ICE vehicles (i.e. not weird)

It's quite shocking that most manufacturers haven't realized this. They all try to out-Tesla Tesla in doing unique looking and acting EVs, instead of just putting an electric powertrain in exactly the same looking cars they already make. Mercedes and BMW have taught us that most people care nothing about the details of how their car operates (I'm referring to the move to FWD platforms over RWD), but do care a lot that they look normal and are easy to operate.

XutvJet wrote

It's not what these cars are about. These cars are about connection, drama, etc. Not max power and all out performance numbers.

Actually I’d argue that is exactly the purpose of the 911 Turbo, always has been.

kudos wrote

The way I read it was buisness speak for higher prices and lower quality.

They even got rid of the twist key and replaced it with a start button just like the VW Golf (I don’t really know that but it looks like it). Slowly by slowly they are taking away all the little things that make a Porsche a Porsche. The twist key is a seemingly small thing but when you add up all those items here and there, it becomes just another car. They have forgotten what makes their cars “special”. Now the brand is just a novelty for ultra wealthy who want bragging rights. And if you want a GT car or Turbo, you practically have to have sex with the GM, pay an ADM and buy their stupid extras like wheel insurance, crappily installed PPF, a watch etc.

c1pher wrote

They even got rid of the twist key and replaced it with a start button just like the VW Golf (I don’t really know that but it looks like it). Slowly by slowly they are taking away all the little things that make a Porsche a Porsche. The twist key is a seemingly small thing but when you add up all those items here and there, it becomes just another car.

That is a move in the right direction. I refuse to buy a vehicle in 2026 that requires me to fish in my pocket for a key to drive the damn thing.

I prefer no key at all. I often just used my apple watch on the M2, even though I have to contort my wrist to make the stupid narrowband NFC reader in the car detect the watch. I dislike keys that much.

This business of making cars quirky for the sake of the geriatric crowd is numbered. BMW has shown us that cars can be desirable and engaging, even with auto transmissions keyless entry/start and giant screens. But even they could not resist the ridiculous removing of the cupholders on the CS cars.

Agree the key on the left, which became a pseudo-key and is now a pushbutton, was a unique Porsche feature. I am in a 2026 Cayenne loaner now with a pushbutton, and my 2020 Cayenne has a pseudo-key.

Porsche went to the Braun shaver gear select lever on the dash, eliminating the console shift lever. Good to have more space in the console area but the Braun shaver is dumb and requires reaching. MB with the DirectSelect lever on the column is best imo.

Porsche is a bit lost in the woods today. They harvested cost from the latest ICE Cayenne interior making it much chintzier in appearance. The Macan is soldiering on, on an outdated platform to save VW investment dollars. Panamera is a cool car but low volume.

At the same time Macan and Cayenne EVs have been introduced. To my knowledge Macan EV hasn’t sold well and the Cayenne EV is new in the market. We shall see.

Add the four-door malaises to the sports car comments and things seem messy for Porsche.

With how frequently you see cayannes and macans, Porsche is doing great, maybe a little dip in the last few years relatively, but these two vehicles have carried them. Those are their bread and butter, despite how many people dream of a 911.

RM7 wrote

With how frequently you see cayannes and macans, Porsche is doing great, maybe a little dip in the last few years relatively, but these two vehicles have carried them. Those are their bread and butter, despite how many people dream of a 911.

Well, it just goes to show you that capitalism, appeasing shareholders, and the desire to make bundles of money often leads to selling of one's soul BMW is just as guilty of it. Sell your reputation and history to make the big dollars selling to people that only care about a badge. In this case, market big, heavy, and cumbersome SUVs as BMW and Porsche "performance" vehicles. Sure, they can be fast and handle (due to huge sticky tires and other expensive expendables) and I get why they did this, but these vehicles are so damn stupid and tarnish the brand, IMO.

MJBO wrote

Actually I’d argue that is exactly the purpose of the 911 Turbo, always has been.

Totally agree, but Porsche made the decision years ago to make all of it's sports cars turbo minus most of the GT cars. Now you can make a standard/base 911 as fast or faster than a 911 Turbo with a set of aftermarket turbos and a tune. In terms of acceleration, the only advantage of the 911 Turbo is it's standstill launch capability.

It was inevitable I guess. People think they want more and more power and most don't understand the impact that has on daily driving and flogging the car. Sure, it's amusing to have a car that rips to 60 in under 3 seconds and runs the 1/4 mile in the low 11s, but around town, you can't dip into even 50% of the power or fully rip through gears without risk of jail time. 500hp+ cars is just so silly and unnecessary, IMO.

It's just sad that Porsche doesn't offer an NA motor in it's non-GT cars anymore. There are tons of potential buyers that want a Cayman/Boxster/911 with a nice 300-400hp NA flat 6 and don't give a crap if it's slower than a current gen M2 or the like.

No matter how well it may be tuned, turbo motors just don't have the feel, connection, linearity, and sound of a well tuned NA motor. And the gas mileage argument doesn't apply either. When driven like an NA motor, turbo motors do not get significantly better mpgs.